ToFG: Apocalyptic Showdown
To finish our Tale of Four Gamers we're having an apocalyptic showdown, and I thought I'd give fair warning of the rules we are using for this one.
For starters, all models MUST be painted. It is a painting challenge we've just finished after all. It doesn't matter when you painted them, or whether you're missing something you should have finished earlier, if it's painted you can use it, if it isn't then it doesn't exist as far as we're concerned.
Second, scoring. Imperial Armour apocalypse rules will be used here. I will reproduce them below...
"The following model types are NOT able to claim objectives:
Independant Characters
Immobilised Vehicles or immobile models
Flyers (including those using Hover Mode to act as skimmers)
Units which are fleeing or pinned
Other than this all other units and models can both claim and contest objectives unless stated within the mission rules.
To claim or contest an objective, a model must be within 5 inches of the edge of the objective marker. No model or unit may claim or contest more than one objective regardless of size. Owning player picks if this becomes a factor.
Objectives themselves are counted as impassable terrain but do not block line of sight at all. It is not permissable for vehicles or walkers to 'park' on top of objectives for any reason.
Note also that owing to these modified rules the strategic asset Hold At All Costs is no longer relevant as listed and should not be used"
There will be a couple of additional objectives, again taking inspiration from IAA2.
Kill Score.
Kill points will be added up for any unit destroyed. Gargantuan creatures are worth 3 kill points, super heavy vehicles are worth as many as their starting structure points. Keep track of the kill points, whichever army holds most at the end counts as holding an additional objective.
In addition to this, we'll be using the Lord Of War rule. This makes the commander of the army worth 3 kill points instead of 1. For this, we will be using the characters that have been with us through thick and thin. For me, this means Bugrit is my Lord of War. He may well be following Wazzdakka in a starstruck daze, but he's still the one we've known for longer. Likewise, Chris Lord Of War will be Koenig (his 3 will include his command squad) Rich will be the daemon prince and Ken your crisis suit commander (whose name escapes me, but probably sounds something like a goldfish breaking wind) These will be added to our kill points score to decide the additional objective. If it is a tie neither side gains the advantage.
For fun, I'm including the rule for crashing flyers from IAA2. I don't think there'll be many of these, but it could be a bit of fun to spice things up.
The basic rules will be for a standard apoc game, though we will have personal missions. These will be written in advance and will be secret (even from our teammate) Revealing the mission before the end of the game means your mission is void. You will have the choice of three.
Claim most objectives in the enemy deployment zone.
Kill the highest value enemy independant character.
Destroy the highest value enemy legendary formation.
In the kill/destroy ones, the person who takes the last wound takes the prize, as keeping track of who did what damage is far too much work. If both players on a team complete their mission, whoever did the harder mission is named that sides champion.
The winning team will get 5 points each. The champion of each team will get 5 points each. Thus there are 0, 5, 5, and 10 points available.
Anyway, gamers, let me know your thoughts or queries on these rules. I've tried to keep things fluffy, balanced, and to use some input from Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 to make it work with 5th edition and still be fun and quite a lot of carnage.
Good Luck Gamers
For starters, all models MUST be painted. It is a painting challenge we've just finished after all. It doesn't matter when you painted them, or whether you're missing something you should have finished earlier, if it's painted you can use it, if it isn't then it doesn't exist as far as we're concerned.
Second, scoring. Imperial Armour apocalypse rules will be used here. I will reproduce them below...
"The following model types are NOT able to claim objectives:
Independant Characters
Immobilised Vehicles or immobile models
Flyers (including those using Hover Mode to act as skimmers)
Units which are fleeing or pinned
Other than this all other units and models can both claim and contest objectives unless stated within the mission rules.
To claim or contest an objective, a model must be within 5 inches of the edge of the objective marker. No model or unit may claim or contest more than one objective regardless of size. Owning player picks if this becomes a factor.
Objectives themselves are counted as impassable terrain but do not block line of sight at all. It is not permissable for vehicles or walkers to 'park' on top of objectives for any reason.
Note also that owing to these modified rules the strategic asset Hold At All Costs is no longer relevant as listed and should not be used"
There will be a couple of additional objectives, again taking inspiration from IAA2.
Kill Score.
Kill points will be added up for any unit destroyed. Gargantuan creatures are worth 3 kill points, super heavy vehicles are worth as many as their starting structure points. Keep track of the kill points, whichever army holds most at the end counts as holding an additional objective.
In addition to this, we'll be using the Lord Of War rule. This makes the commander of the army worth 3 kill points instead of 1. For this, we will be using the characters that have been with us through thick and thin. For me, this means Bugrit is my Lord of War. He may well be following Wazzdakka in a starstruck daze, but he's still the one we've known for longer. Likewise, Chris Lord Of War will be Koenig (his 3 will include his command squad) Rich will be the daemon prince and Ken your crisis suit commander (whose name escapes me, but probably sounds something like a goldfish breaking wind) These will be added to our kill points score to decide the additional objective. If it is a tie neither side gains the advantage.
For fun, I'm including the rule for crashing flyers from IAA2. I don't think there'll be many of these, but it could be a bit of fun to spice things up.
The basic rules will be for a standard apoc game, though we will have personal missions. These will be written in advance and will be secret (even from our teammate) Revealing the mission before the end of the game means your mission is void. You will have the choice of three.
Claim most objectives in the enemy deployment zone.
Kill the highest value enemy independant character.
Destroy the highest value enemy legendary formation.
In the kill/destroy ones, the person who takes the last wound takes the prize, as keeping track of who did what damage is far too much work. If both players on a team complete their mission, whoever did the harder mission is named that sides champion.
The winning team will get 5 points each. The champion of each team will get 5 points each. Thus there are 0, 5, 5, and 10 points available.
Anyway, gamers, let me know your thoughts or queries on these rules. I've tried to keep things fluffy, balanced, and to use some input from Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 to make it work with 5th edition and still be fun and quite a lot of carnage.
Good Luck Gamers
Boo! Not only is my army severely hampered (still not happy about that at all) but the whole point in having a million troop choices is nerfed.
ReplyDeleteShield of the Emperor grants three strategic assets. Defence Lines, Supreme Command, and On My Coordinates.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, I always forget Supreme Command, though it looks useful. On My Coordinates is of very limited application. Defence Lines is a major one.
Of course, we all start with a strategic asset, so you can choose that one that way. If you want Supreme Command as well, then being 250 points less than the opposition will grant you an extra asset. Given the Shield of the Emperor costs 150 points, it isn't much difference.
Moving on to the troops choices being nerfed, in my last game I made it that Troops only counted as scoring, and only if they were over half strength. This is because there had been no definitive answer from GW about what effect the fifth edition changes had on apocalypse. Thus I balanced fifth ed rules with the Hold At All Costs asset still being valid.
With IAA2 GW has addressed the issue, and said to ignore Hold At All Costs. It has given a list of scoring units to use. By making independant characters no longer count, I believe GW is trying to address the issue in apoc where you have twenty heroes running around and barely any troops. This is a good thing. They have allowed other units and vehicles to still count, and I can see the use of this - in my game against Ken, I wiped his scoring units in the first couple turns. He had a massive numerical advantage, but couldn't actually win. Again it was a strange game.
I think the new rules are more balanced, but if the majority want to go with Troops only count as scoring, I'm willing to adapt the scenario to that one. We'll still ignore Hold At All Costs, but a unit has to be a Troops unit off the FOC chart to capture an objective, though ANY unit can contest. It's closer to a basic fifth edition game that way.
What do you guys think?
Meh, you know my thoughts on it so I won't be able to bring anything constructive to the discussion. I was just hoping there could have been a compensation made, sort of an "extenuating circumstances" considering you get to paint at work and have days off, and Rich has evenings and weekends to paint. And, like I said, I've had about 9 days off in total since November.
ReplyDeleteI symapthise entirely, but life circumstances change all the time. My own circumstances took a couple of major changes, one of which ate my painting time, but the other which freed up more time for me to paint. Take my word for it, having more time to paint was the silver lining to a very dark cloud, and totally NOT worth it.
ReplyDeleteAs such I'm sticking to the painted models rule. It just seems to be the natural end of things. If we'd been playing a campaign based on games setting the scores, and try to paint your army for bonus points, then sure I can see you should use the entire force you designed for the finale. But this has always been first and foremost a painting challenge, so I think we need painted models, regardless of whether they were in your original force, over unpainted models that played in the mini tournament.
I can give some leniancy on the troops as scoring issue. I'd prefer to go with the IAA2 ruling, as that is GW line on the issue, whereas troops only was my best guess fudge of 5th edition and 4th ed apoc rules. But that I'll leave to a vote. But the painted rule stands. I've tried to explain how you can get the benefit of "Shield of the Emporer" without those missing units... if you want to avoid being short on points, I can maybe say each player gets two starting assets. That will also have to be voted on. I'm reluctant to give too many assets out, as before you know it the game revolves around them and the models are inconsequential.
So, the questions for my three gamers;
Scoring - IAA2 rules, or Ginges 4th/5th Troops only rules?
Assets - Everyone starts with 1? Or 2?
Answers in the comments box please.
I wasn't aware that IAA2 had all these new rules in it, so I have to admit that took me by surprise. I'll abstain from voting, because I'm the one whose army is mostly Troops choices, it would be too biased an opinion.
ReplyDeleteWe should start with 1 asset each I think. As you said they end up ruling the game. Also I'd rather have models instead of assets to make up the points - Baneblades being the obvious easy choice as you said before.
Fair enough on the painted models, thems the rules. I've said my piece and thank you for taking it into consideration at least.
The bonus missions - are we picking them or are they randomised? I only have the one formation, aside from any Baneblades you sling me.
I too was unaware until I had a copy in my hands, I bought it for the updated vehicle rules and stuff. The fact that it brought these rules up was a useful bonus, and I will be using them as a basis in future. As the last discussion we had on apoc cited my game against Ken as the probable ruleset, I am allowing this one to go to a vote. But any future apoc events I organise will be utilising IAA2.
ReplyDeleteYou choose your bonus mission from a very short list, but you do so secretly (even from your teammate) The decision will be made before forces are declared. Once everyone has secretly submit their mission to a sealed envelope, I will draw up a chart on one of the white boards. The teams discuss their armies and find the most expensive IC and the most expensive Legendary Formation. These are then written for each team on the whiteboard. During the game, if someone kills the target, their name is recorded in the box. Once the game is done and the winners declared, the envelope is opened to reveal who has suceeded in their personal mission, and what the final scores are. ANYONE who reveals their mission before the envelope is opened has automatically failed - the enemy have intel and ran a false flag operation against you. Smug grins if you know you've completed your mission will be allowed. :oP
In the case of Chris' models, could he not borrow the missing infantry from your collection Ginge? Admittedly it would look different to the rest of his army but it would at least be painted.
ReplyDeleteI would also think it would be better for everyone to publish their lists a week before the game, then secretly pick a mission. As, for example, if I pick legendary formation, I don't even know If you or Rich are taking any, so I would have failed the mission before the game even starts.
Might be worth clarifying that a unit that has gone to ground can still claim as well.
I have written my army list out. If I get my datasheet, 2x commissars and 10x Guardsmen painted I can use the army. The grand total is *drum roll*....
ReplyDelete....2075
@Firewasp - ok, to avoid wasting a mission, before the mission is picked if a side doesn't have a legendary formation (pretty unlikely) or any ICs (Pretty much impossible) then these missions will be struck from the options. They don't have to declare which is the most valuable till after missions are declared though. Otherwise it could influence selection.
ReplyDeleteAs an example, if I thought a Banebalde was the most expensive legendary formation, I might think that something I could take down. If however, my opponent was taking a fully manned Shield of the Emperor (theoretically somewhere in the region of 6000 points of guardsmen) then that would be a much harder task. Not to mention needing a crow bar to prise my jaw back up off the floor...
And Chris, for what it's worth, right now I'm running 2k. I haven't got anything else yet. I'm aiming for some extra stuff, but I have a busy month and have NO idea if I'll get any of it down on time.
I know Rich is getting his Baneblade ready, so perhaps if we could have one as well, and an asset if the points are skewed still. Rich has said he doesn't want only one side to have a Baneblade, as is usually the case!
ReplyDeleteIf I get my Commissars painted then my army will work. If I don't then I'm screwed :P
Ok, and I'm working on that orky one, so could give you a second if I get it done. Notionally it'd be under your command, but if you let Ken have a play with it it'd mean everyone had one :oP
ReplyDeleteI'll have a barracuda to play with. mmmm.
ReplyDeleteHopefully XV9 s as well.
Ok, lacking any further input on this one, I'm gonna go with the following;
ReplyDeleteScoring - IAA2 Rules
Assets - One each (though obviously one side may get another one or two if the sides are unbalanced)
I will have hard copies of IAA2 rules summarised and printed out for you to peruse on the day before we begin. If anyone wishes to have a read of IAA2 in the meantime, let me know.